Thanks a lot for all the comments on the last one!! still another one that has been in my working folder forever and just kinda made it my goal to just go through the whole folder and finish them, and try to learn and try something new on each one of them, i have a big problem with just showing characters or whatever at basic eye level and always seem to be back lit with horizon line straight across the image....so ya trying to break that habit, broaden my horizons :)